Can you teach ‘real’ engineering at a distance?

Wendy Kilfoil, of the University of Pretoria, has kindly drawn my attention to the University of South Africa, whose College of Science and Engineering offers B.Tech courses wholly at a distance.

Tony2 is right. However, the University of South Africa is not accredited by any recognized engineering organizations in the US or Canada…or by the US Department of Education for that matter.

University of North Dakota offers several undergraduate engineering degrees by distance. The faculty is accredited. Accreditation for the distance ed degree is under review. Tuition is the same as for ND residence. International students are accepted.

Memorial University in Newfoundland offers an entirely online Bachelor of Technology degree. Not equal to an engineering degree, I know, I have been looking for this myself.

I’m in the same boat as Rich Zuc. I left university in my early 20’s as well and have been wanting to go back to finish my engineering degree. However, I need to maintain full time employment as well. I am currently checking out Waterloo’s online program (http://www.ece.uwaterloo.ca/Undergrad/Academics/Online/). Looks promising.

I have a BS in Electrical Engineering and did a Master’s in Informatics (not engineering) on-line. Short answer – I don’t think you could possibly do a quality on-line program in engineering. Engineering requires strong fundamental work in physics and chemistry, as well as hands-on engineering labs. I also don’t think on-line programs can be as rigorous as traditional programs.

This has repercussions in K-12 education, too. Virtual high schools, which are more and more popular now, don’t really offer any pre-engineering courses. So those students are even less prepared for or exposed to engineering concepts and career opportunities.

I also face a similar dilemma to Rich and Rob. I hold a National Diploma in Mineral Dressing & Metallurgy and have been practising in the field for 20 years. No doubt obtaining a B-degree would open up a lot of career opportunities for me. The Engineering Council UK examinations were one way of obtaining a qualification equivalent to a B-degree but the administrator, City & Guilds UK, will be supervising the last examination in 2011. India has a similar set up through the Institution of Engineers, but you need to travel there for their examination, or go to one of their overseas centres. They did not sound keen on taking up my offer to travel though.

My short answer, too, is no, you can’t teach “real” engineering at a distance. I am a professional engineer, a faculty member at BCIT, and coordinator of the Civil Engineering Technology Distance Education program formerly offered by BCIT.

I say “formerly” because the decision to retire the program was just made in September 2010. The primary reason behind the decision is that, in the 25 or so years various credentials have been available, very few students have actually completed any of them. There have been a total of 64 graduates since the program was established in the mid 1980s, and more than half of them were in 1984 and 1985, having entered the distance program with a large number of credits obtained through a previous, non-distance program. The very small number of students means a very small budget to maintain and update courses.

Since 1985, only 4 students completed a Certificate of Technology, a credential that is approximately equivalent to one year of full-time study. “Full-time” in most engineering technology programs at BCIT means around 30 hours of class time per week, including labs and mandatory tutorials, through a 35-week academic year. Homework and project time is additional. A Diploma of Technology in Civil Engineering Technology takes two years full time; a B.Eng. in Civil Engineering takes four.

Many prospective students that have contacted me say they cannot attend full-time because they are working full-time and cannot quit, but I don’t think they realize just how much time is required to complete a Diploma of Technology or engineering degree. To do either while maintaining full-time employment would take a very long time.

In addition to the accreditation requirements noted in your reply, another reason that engineering distance education is unlikely to be successful is that most engineering programs are designed as complete programs–the courses are interdependent, not items to be chosen off a menu or ticked off one by one.

I also need to add that there is a lot more to engineering program accreditation than just hands-on labs. Every facet of the curriculum is examined and must meet or exceed very specific benchmarks.

The purpose of accreditation is to protect the public. It is my understanding that graduates of unaccredited engineering or technology programs can still obtain professional licensing in Canada if they can prove that they have equivalent education and knowledge by writing exams set by their professional regulatory body.

Hi everyone:

Just a brief comment that I am surprised to read the comments here that suggest that engineering needs real hand-on labs. I am not in Engineering science, but I do know that SFU did have some entirely online engineering courses. And the engineering profs who supported this initiated argued that all the labs in SFU engineering courses were already online, computer-based simulations. That hands-on labs were rare if still in existence.

Sounds like there is still alot of debate on this topic.

I’d appreciate your views on a related issue: do engineering courses tend to use group oriented pedagogies like team projects? group discussion?

Thanks,
Linda

Hi again….this topic is not an area of specialization but I seem to be running into it tonight.

FYI: Stanford University has launched SEE:

Welcome to Stanford Engineering Everywhere (SEE)

For the first time in its history, Stanford is offering some of its most popular engineering classes free of charge to students and educators around the world. Stanford Engineering Everywhere (SEE) expands the Stanford experience to students and educators online. A computer and an Internet connection are all you need. View lecture videos, access reading lists and other course handouts, take quizzes and tests, and communicate with other SEE students, all at your convenience.

SEE programming includes one of Stanford’s most popular sequences: the three-course Introduction to Computer Science taken by the majority of Stanford’s undergraduates and seven more advanced courses in artificial intelligence and electrical engineering.
Stanford Engineering Everywhere offers:

* Anytime and anywhere access to complete lecture videos via streaming or downloaded media.
* Full course materials including syllabi, handouts, homework, and exams.
* Online social networking with fellow SEE students.
* Support for PCs, Macs and mobile computing devices.

Stanford encourages fellow educators to use Stanford Engineering course materials in their own classrooms. A Creative Commons license allows for free and open use, reuse, adaptation and redistribution of Stanford Engineering Everywhere material.

I took a look at the Stanford Engineering Everywhere site, and like the programs offered at SFU, only a few courses are available online, not an entire program. Also, the SSE courses are all in the electrical and computer engineering fields whereas the largest engineering disciplines are civil and mechanical. I just can’t visualize how a computer simulation could replace hands-on labs in soil mechanics, surveying, etc.

And yes, engineering courses do use group projects. This is an accreditation requirement since engineering is really a “team sport”.

Jacquie

Hello, everyone! I’m very pleased to have stumbled upon this discussion! I’m almost in the same situation as Mr. Zuc. Fortunately, I was able to complete an AS in General Studies while serving in the military and before children. The coursework was geared for pre-engineering and computer science and contained Calculus, Differential Equations and Calculus based Chemistry and Physics.

After reading some of the replies, I agree that required engineering courses with labs, like chemistry and physics, may require access to costly equipment and materials. Plus, some experiments can be potentially dangerous to replicate in a home. However, as a current “frustrated” EE student at the University of Alabama Huntsville, I truly believe most of the EE and CE coursework can easily be delivered online. Right now, the majority of course offerings at UAH occur during the typical 8-5 workday! Each class I attend evaporates ~2 hours of my workday (class & commute time). Acquiring my 40 hours every week at work and spending quality time with my family is a significant challenge. This doesn’t even include time for homework and studying!

After speaking with the University of North Dakota this week, I’ve officially decided to give them a chance. They are ABET accredited, less expensive than UAH and will greatly reduce the stress caused by the 8-hours of disruption 2 courses inflict on my work week.

Please understand, I think the engineering programs at UAH are highly respectable. They should seriously consider online offerings of their engineering courses and subsequent ABET accreditation of the online program. The board at UAH is more concerned with getting bodies on the campus via mandatory residency (build a dorm and they will come) and implementing non-sense programs like the required meal-plan for full-time students (prove you’re married or pay). They have a tradition as a commuter college and are trying to change that image. They are doing an exceptional job of alienating the customer base that helped grow the institution.

Ultimately, undergraduate engineering degrees are currently held in the stranglehold of stodgy institutions, like UAH, that cling to old ideals and refuse to innovate. I truly hope time changes things.

Best of luck to everyone!

Sincerely,

John

I found this discussion to be very interesting and to reinforce what I surmised to be the case with regard to the current state of engineering education. I have two bachelor’s degrees and a master’s degree and am a licensed/registered professional engineer in 4 jurisdictions in the U.S.A. with over 30 years of engineering and related experience. Fortunately I already had a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree in disciplines other than engineering before I attended Georgia Tech (officially a highly reputable and distinguished engineering school). I word it this way (“officially”) as I do not believe this university or most any other university properly prepares students to practice engineering. But not for the required four years of experience working under a licensed professional engineer to qualify to take the professional engineer ‘s (Principals and Practices of Engineering) exam, most of these graduates would not be qualified to actually practice engineering in a manner that protects the public health and safety. The most recent attempts to include significant project team-related courses in the final year are a step forward but are still quite inadequate. This process should begin in the first year, not the last. These comments are not meant to offend any engineering graduates or practicing engineers, nor are they meant to offend professors of engineering. Pursuing and completing an engineering degree is very difficult and anyone that does so should be commended. Also, anyone teaching engineering has worked hard to attain that status. That does not mean it is a good system as it presently exists. There has been and continues to be considerable debate on the part of students, professors, ABET, NCEES, state engineering registration boards, etc. as to what the educational and experience requirements should be for licensing and practicing as a professional engineer. It certainly is not unanamous as to what these requirements should be. The latest tacks on a Master’s Degree but there is still disagreement on what this degree and course work or thesis should consist of !? Many of my co-workers over the years have complained of what they felt to be very inadequate engineering college preparation for the practice of engineering, Some expressed outright bitterness with regard to this.

The arrogance of the engineering profession came through loud and clear with one of the writers in this column. That arrogance was basically “no way can undergraduate engineering education ever be taught by distance learning”. It reminded me of what two of my Georgia Tech professors said when I was in school there – “I don’t believe women should be in engineering” – to which the lone two women in the class promptly responded by setting the class scale and leaving me with a damn “C” in the course.

I appluad the University of North Dakota in their development and offering of ABET accredited undergraduate degrees in engineering and remind them of the huge responsibility they have accepted by doing so. They must do whatever it takes to make these programs successful. The comment regarding the inability to conduct labs via distance learning is typical of the arguments against distance learning engineering education. Engineering is supposed to be creative so why don’t the critics (many profound and distinguished engineering hot shots) get off their penguin butts and design state-of-the-art distance learning laboratory procedures worthy of medals and awards. Perhaps the North Dakota programs already have or perhaps they require a week or two of attendance on campus to get them out of the way. I can assure you the hands-on knowledge I gained in the labs I took at Georgia Tech in physics, engineering, etc. could be gained in a number of ways and did little to really enhance my engineering knowledge. In fact I have found that personal desire to succeed, proactive independent study and investigation far outweigh typically boring Ph.D. faculty lectures or labs. It certainly has worked well in the British Isles educational system and elsewhere for a long long time.

I remember many of my Georgia Tech classmates referring to upcoming graduations as “getting out”. I also remember one drop-out student writing on her pink drop-out slip as the reason for doing so to be “I just thought I wanted to be an engineer”. An earlier writer alluded to the reason things are the way they are – simple economics and supply and demand. The engineering schools can get all the students they want the way things are set up right now. Engineering graduates gain top salaries upon graduation and the incentive to change is minimal for the colleges or professors as they usually have more student prospects than they really want – especially if their focus is research which is often the case. This current system, however, routinely excludes some of the potentially best and brightest students (in terms of making a future contribution to the profession rather than making high grades in physics and calculus coursework), One or the best engineers I ever worked with had no college course work whatsoever, had worked his way up from draftsman to engineer, had studied for independently and passed the EIT and PE exams and had distinguished himself in project and design work. How many students in a typical engineering program do you think could accomplish this feat?

The fact of the matter is, engineering (especially with respect to engineering education) is still trying to figure itself out. As it is unlikely any of the powers that be will do anything radical enough to affect my professional engineering licensure status, I simply am watching the progress, or lack thereof, being made. Having said all that, I am proud to be an engineer, generally enjoy the profession, and feel I am making an important contribution to society on a regular basis. I hope these candid comments will be useful in some way, especially to those struggling to enter the engineering profession.

I find it interesting reading the comment. You got one side saying it is impossible to teach engineering properly from a distance because of required hands on experiments and such. Then you have the other side saying that engineering is far behind the times in education. I want to find a balance between them but I can’t.
In my view, old school educators do like to change. They like their jobs, their salary and their comfortable chair. So there in no incentive to be innovative. Us young pups don’t know what we are talking about. At least that’s how it comes across.
When I think of the term engineering by itself. It spells innovation, creativity, design. It seems to me that engineering should be setting the standard in creativity not in “status quo”. But, if you got educators who still think that one should still be learning with a pick-axe and a shovel (and I agree there are times for that as well) then where is the creativity and innovation?
You guys are engineers for pete’s sake. “Innovation R Us”.

I’m Canadian and live in rural Alberta. my research has led me to believe that the university of north dakota may be my ticket into being a licensed engineer in Alberta Canada. I’m working full-time and find it difficult to quit my career in the trades to attend a university in another city. UND offers the only ABET accredited mechanical. Engineer degree that’s distance focused that I could find in the states. The program seems to meet Canadian requirements but I still need to make some calls to be sure. If your Canadian, make sure you know your provinces’ rules

If anyone is still reading this post, I found an engineering program that is delivered completely online from Australia and is accredited (via the Washington Accord) in Canada. Scroll all the way to the bottom. http://www.usq.edu.au/handbook/2012/eng/beng.html

I agree with Jacquie Gaudet earlier in this comment thread. I do think that a lot subjects lend themselves well to distance learning, especially those that do not require lab work. I’ve taken many distance learning courses myself actually, and I’ve been very very happy with them, feeling like I’ve come away learning so much – but those were marketing and finance subjects. I can’t see how an engineering subject would translate 100% to online or distance.

Of course, I think you could manage a good amount of the syllabus via distance learning, just like with many other online degrees, but there is a need for peer discussion and materials testing in engineering (depending on your field) that you just can’t replicate outside of structured learning environments and engineering labs. You can run simulations of course, but how can the tutor ensure the simulations are run in the proper manner?

In summary, I think it depends very much on the course syllabus. A more paper-based approach can translate very well to distance learning. A more hands-on approach surely requires… well, some hands on.

hi all,
this is one of the rare topics ever discussed- am in the same situation for the last 4years, I cannot get a chance to get an engineering degree thru an on line / distance learning, What is the problem with engineers? that Finance , accountants, administrators,……….. etc are able to do their courses successfully

We develop laboratory work remotely École de technologie supérieure in Montreal. See the website: elab.etsmtl.ca
I think in some time, it will be possible to offer engineering courses at a distance

A lot of engineers in Australia earn full engineering degrees by distance education. Most are tradesmen who want to move up to the next level. In fact this was how I earned my engineering degree. I started as a tradesman, moved into the design office, and then spent the next 8 years doing a BEng by distance education. No theory or practice was neglected. I actually took all of my electives from the maths department (which was also offered by distance). I challenge anyone who believes that they are a better engineer for having spend four years on-campus.

Burlington, Ontario
Civil Engineering Technician diploma
Electiomic Engineering Technician diploma
Member of OACETT
12yrs working experience

Have been looking for 9 months and can’t find anyway to upgrade my education. This is fantastic information and I really hope the engineering educational world gets up to speed. People such as myself that want to make a real difference in the world and push the boundaries of engineering are being held back because we are not in a position to NOT work and educate ourselves.

This has been a very informative discussion. Although I am glad I am not the only one who has found themselves in this position, I wish that this was a non-issue. It seems the lack of Online and Distance Education in engineering programs has more to do with ego and failure to innovate, than anything else. Although it can be difficult for some classes to be taught online, the University of North Dakota has shown that it can be done in a variety of Engineering disciplines.

I wonder when it will start to become mainstream. One can only hope that some of the bigger schools like Stanford and MIT will start to offer Online degrees for Undergraduates in Engineering, especially in disciplines such as Electrical and Computer Engineering, where most of the upper level work is done in computer labs utilizing Spice, MatLab, Xilinx ISE Design Suite, and others.

Just to add to this discussion:

The University of Washington (a top US public university based in Seattle, where the Boeing Aircraft company is located) offers several online masters in engineering including:

• Master of Aerospace Engineering in Composite Material Structures
• Master of Science in Aeronautics and Astronautics
• Master of Science in Aerospace Engineering
• Master of Science in Civil & Environmental Engineering (Construction Engineering)
• Master of Science in Mechanical Engineering

For more information, go to: http://www.pce.uw.edu/online-graduate-degrees-uw.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=November%202012%20Newsletter&utm_campaign=PCE%20News&utm_content=November+2012+Newsletter

I’d appreciate it if engineers can explain why it’s OK to offer graduate degrees in engineering online, but not undergraduate degrees.

I completed my BS in EET online (Excelsior College), but took most of my courses at local colleges. Now I am considering a BS in EE online since I find it difficult to transistion to Engineering without an EE degree in the US. My coworker is doing his through UND and has good reviews but he is at the very beginning. I am also watching Stonybrook University which is not yet accredited which offers the final two years of courses thus not requiring labs. I have courses to cover the first two years but I am waiting for their accredition in 2014.

For anyone inquiring about the University of North Dakota here is the email I received when I asked if their ABET accredited Engineering courses can in fact be completed 100% online.

Dear Steve,

Thank you for contacting us.

On-campus laboratories are required. The number of visits to the UND campus for laboratories will vary based on the degree program and transfer credits. Chemical Engineering and Civil Engineering require about 5 visits to campus. Electrical Engineering, Mechanical and Petroleum Engineering require about 4 visits to campus. 1 credit is 5 days, 2 and 3 credits are up to 14 days. These labs are generally done in the month of June.

There are only limited on-campus requirements. UND has worked hard to reduce the amount of visits to the UND campus for laboratory work. If a student is interested in taking a laboratory locally at a regionally accredited college/university, they would be required to work with the Academic Department in determining if the laboratory offered at the local college/university is the same laboratory that UND offers.

Please feel free to contact us live online at http://und.edu or contact us at 1-800-CALL-UND if you have any additional questions.

Please use this link to rate the response you received in this email.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXX (I intentionally removed the senders name)

Wow there is way more people out there than I thought that are looking for quality extended engineering education. I really do hope that some Canadian institutions see what an opportunity they have in front of them.

Hello All,
I have checked NDU ( North Dakota) Website. This university really worth and recognized worldwide, Offering on-line accredited engineering course. Already registered with them. Looking for other people to weekly combined study if possible.

People have to understand that it isn’t easy to be a good engineer when having distance learning because engineering require too many practice and that’s what make people mastering what they’re studying!
I’d be gratefull to know an university offering distance learning in engineering and making students mastering without lab or practice…

There are a lot of pros and cons for both inclusion and exclusion of the online engineering degrees. The bare truth is that most profs are against it simply because this requires a radical change of the way they deliver their classes. However, the official reason will always be more or less related to the need for one-to-one hands-on labs and the like.

That being said, the Canadian government is really pushing for this all-inclusive online education (fancy called e-learning) because they look at ways to save few (hundreds of thousands) bucks and lower the deficit (Ontario, beware!).

Because of this, I am sure that the online engineering classes will soon appear in Canada. Not sure about their initial CEAB accreditation though, but where there is a will, there is always a way!

All those interested, please keep this in mind and rest assured: I really know what I am talking about.

I too don’t see why you couldn’t do EE online. I remember in the mid 90’s the U of Minnesota was offering Distance learning program in EE( they had videotapes….. remember those?…of the lectures that you had to watch and then you only visited the campus a couple times) but they discontinued it. I also thought going to the campus every day was a waste of time and gas!! When i was pursuing my EE in Mankato State we had two guys living 200 miles away sitting in on the lectures via satellite…cmon! that was the mid nineties. We have the internet and Skype now. A student could easily sit in on lectures/watch lectures using Youtube or something similar and doing the circuit lab online. I dropped out my junior year, but I remember we were always being told to use PSPICE!!…. wasting time driving to campus just to learn how to use a computer program for everything,a student could do this and submit his homework online.

Here’s a bunch of free electrical engineering courses from MIT:

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/

From Ontario, working full time with family and college diploma in Manufacturing Engineering Technology and Quality Assurance Certificate.

Have a close look at the P.Eng requirements before diving into a “degree”. If you work in the field of your interest already and want to make the next step, just do it. You just need a P. Eng mentor (who isn’t even required to be on-site full time with you). Or talk to your employer and see if they have any suggestions for your education.

What is your goal?

Is it hanging a frame in your office or putting some credentials beside your e-mail signature? I’ve worked with many of these people and half they time they don’t know what the _____ they are talking about. To know what you are talking about takes experience not provided by any educational organization.

A degree is a broad range of study. If you absolutely need one to reach your goal, there appears to be some good advice above.

And yes, I am on here because I am interested in furthering my education in the comfort of my home. Definitely having second thoughts about pursuing a full degree though. Just not in the cards in my situation.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on lynchburg college.

Regards

I also am very interested in obtaining a engineering degree online. I understand the need for hands on-labs under somebody’s direct supervision, there is definitely a benefit to be able to chat with somebody across the table, rather than via emails. However, I fail to understand why it would not be possible to design the course with most theoretical courses available online with for instance 4 to 6 weeks in the actual university settings. each year. Particularly in the current global environment this would actually be a benefit, because engineering is often no longer delivered by teams that have all their participants located in the same city, let alone the same office or workplace location.
I have worked in the engineering consulting field and am currently working form Ontario with a team in Alberta and a team in Dubai on some pretty intricate health care buildings. I travel to each of the locations about once every two months and we seem to deliver the projects quite successfully by using modern technology such as email, teleconferencing and Lync calls. That is the reality of the work environment now a days.
I am going to check out the UND. I want to do long distance, not because I think it will be easier, but because it will allow me to set my own pace, and work around my work schedule. I have no illusions that it will be easy, just better able to fit it into my schedule.

I really like the idea of online/distance learning in engineering. I tried with poor outcomes, on a couple of occasions, to locate a degree program for electrical engineering. Thanks for the suggestions so far. Here are my few thoughts on the matter.

Why don’t the local established universities set up evening and or weekend, (strictly) laboratory sessions to meet the criteria for the hands-on experience and couple these with well developed online course delivery. With the kinds of course delivery technologies available today it almost seems silly that people still waste enormous amounts of time and money commuting to and from lecture halls.

As for having the lab equipment, well, you could use the money you would otherwise spend to cover transportation, lodging etc. and I think much of what you need could be obtained at reasonable cost especially if you were buying it under some sort of group purchase. The specialized $20k oscilloscope or RF signal generator could something you access during the in-house lab sessions. How about industry opening up a little and making an effort to provide in-house training resources (hardware and software) available.

I fear it will happen only with true leadership or the need for engineer’s exceeds the capacity of the traditional model.

Hello all.

Regarding the Distance Engineering Degree Program at University of North Dakota, I am currently in the program (civil engineering) and have been for approximately 3 years. I previously had a Bachelor’s Degree in management. They reviewed my transcript and accepted what they could. After this I began my studies.

I give this program exceptional praise. I work full-time and this is the only way I could have hoped to attain the degree I actually wanted. You follow directly along with the in-class students. You do the same homework and take the same exams. All exams are proctored to ensure test integrity. The only actual difference is that you do not have to be in a class room at 9 a.m. (example time) in the morning. You may watch the recorded lecture after you get home from work that day.

On campus laboratory sessions are required. They are done in the summertime. I am actually attending a civil engineering lab in less than 2 weeks.

I still have one year left in the program. What I have learned so far had been truly impressive. I would recommend this program to anyone interested in obtaining a degree in civil engineering. And from what I understand, the chemical and mechanical degree programs are just as good. The nature of the distance program does require a somewhat more independent drive to stay on track. But I believe most all people interested in an engineering degree already possess this.

Good luck to anyone considering this, and I highly recommend it.

Excellent conversation. Thank you.

I am an electrician working in Alberta, and I get nothing but frustrated when dealing with most Electrical Engineers! I quite often find myself telling them how to do their job, and explaining “field work” to them. I also am very interested in getting an engineering degree through correspondence, and I don’t really understand why it would be so difficult to do so!! It is not practical for a middle-aged family man to drop everything and go to school for 4 years. Even taking time away from my family in the summer to travel to a campus to do “labs” is completely out of the question.

I personally don’t believe that engineering can’t be taught completely online, and I feel this “old school” thinking by these “associations” and “boy’s clubs” needs to change.

Sorry for offending any of you P’eng’s out there, but a rose is a rose…

Chesley Chan

I was particularly interested in your question of 11/5/12 about online graduate degree programs versus on-campus undergraduate programs using the University of Washington as an example. Here’s what I discovered in probing deeper:

To help answer your question about online graduate engineering degrees versus undergraduate degrees, I drew some “core samples” (a soil mechanics term) from two specific masters degree programs from the University of Washington:
1) MS in Aeronautics and Astronautics, and
2) MS in Civil & Environmental Engineering/Construction Management
I chose these two areas since I am a little familiar with both with an SM in Aero/Astro from MIT and a BS in Civil Engineering from Tufts. I also chose the Construction Management track since it conjures up images of heavy equipment.

What I discovered through the core samples is that both the MS degrees in Aero/Astro and Civil are offered on-campus or online for different reasons.
1. For the Aero/Astro degree, there are two ways to earn the degree: a) a thesis-based track that is only offered on-campus, or b) a non-thesis track that is offered online and consists of all coursework. For my Masters thesis, I spent endless hours in the lab making tubes out of composite materials, instrumenting them, and then breaking them to see what would happen. The hands-on work was great fun that I couldn’t imagine doing online.
2. For Construction Management, the degree is offered: a) in the evening on-campus or b) online. As I probed into the actual courses, there is no requirement to drive a bulldozer, move boulders around, or anything like that. The courses are focused on analytics, planning, and management. I could not see any difference in the requirements between the on-campus and the online degrees so my hunch is that the online program was developed as an “extender” of the on-campus program.

So, based on just two data points, I will draw a straight line to make an hypothesis that the “hardware”-oriented degrees in engineering require a high degree of tactile learning in the lab (I will never forget the results of my first slump test in Concrete Lab where I got a minus 1 inch of slump) while the degrees that are “headier” can be administered online through courses such as statistics, continuum mechanics, etc. This would apply to both undergraduate and graduate degrees.

What this little bit of analysis does not address are the learnings that you get from face-to-face interaction and teamwork that engineering and many other fields require.

Chesley Chan
CEO
Burma Road Innovations

Hi there,
I just read through some of the comments.
I have been looking for a university to complete an undergraduate degree in Mechanical Engineering offered online.

Has anyone taken this thought to the next level, and assumed that you found a university that offered an accredited degree in engineering via distance/online learning.

I live in Alberta, and so I contacted APPEGA (www.apegga.org) – Regulates and licenses the disciplines of engineering, geology and geophysics in Alberta, Canada through practice standards and a code of ethics.

I contaced APPEGA,, and they said that the ABET accreditation would be invalidated, a course by course evaluation would take place, and any courses taken through distance learning would have to be retaken the traditional way.

He also said that ABET accreditation is much inferior to our own CEAB accreditation.

Now, having posted these findings I would like to hear what Albertans or Canadians have to say who are studying via the University of North Dakota or have completed a distance engineering degree and how they registered.

GP

I want to do Carpentry but my college has given us a option to do
Joinery as well and i just want to know whats the difference and
what i would need to do as a carpenter and as a joiner.
Please and Thank You.

This is my first semester in the UND civil engineering program. I received my AS in civil engineering this past summer. Due to change in work schedule I am no longer able to do “traditional school.” I stumbled across UND due to the fact they are the only ABET accredited EAC program. I spoke with my boss about it and he said as long as they are EAC accredited thru ABET, it doesn’t matter the name of the school. Everything is thru blackboard, tests, homework, etc. The only thing is in the summer you have to travel there for 1-2 weeks to do the labs. Since I have previously takem both my chemistry’s and physic’s, I only have to go for two of the engineering labs. So far I have been very impressed with the knowledge of the professors and there promptness in responding. I have had a better experiece so far in my 3.5 months doing the DEDP than previously thru my local school. I will complete my degree by next fall.

I’ve read through these postings and it looks like there is no way to get a bachelors degree in engineering ONLINE or through distance education that is recognized in Canada. Is that a fair assumption?

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Is there a way I can transfer all my wordpress posts into
it? Any help would be really appreciated!

i’m working underground as a mine employee,i decided to persue a career in mining engineering and definitely there’s no doubt about it because all modules that I’m doing are similar to those of university of Johannesburg and also the curriculum is the same, all students i know completed mining engineering at unisa preceded their studies by spending another one doing BTech at university of Johannesburg, so the national diploma from university of Johannesburg is equivalent to the one from unisa,but the difference is at unisa you have the choice of choosing how many modules u’ll be able to study per semester and this result in a long time of completing the course but education we aquire is the same

Last fall (2013) I attended a presentation from « Gillian Saunders & Joost Groot Kormelink (TU Delft, Netherlands) at “The Open and Flexible Higher Education Conference” in Paris. These guys were very proud to talk about their recent online or partly online offering of MSc. in engineering. Here are a couple of notes I took:

• TU Delft maybe the biggest engineering school in EU after Russia (19 K students)
• Transformed some engineering masters into Online Learning
• Same diploma, same requirements, identical rooter as on-campus
• Digital assessments (proctored)
• Completely online: Master in Water Management
• Party online : Aerospace Engineering, Engineering and Policy Analysis
• http://www.tudelft.nl/en/study/online-education/

There may be some hope for online engineering after all.

Interesting posts thus far. I live in Windsor, Ontario and completed an ABET program at Lawrence Technological University. I did this commuting after work to Southfield, Michigan. Classes were late afternoons, evenings and weekends. The courses were identical to those in Ontario. Incidently my brother was attending Waterloo and used the exact same textbooks. I worked in Michigan as an electrical engineer for a number of years before coming back to Ontario to teach. Since then completed a MBA at University of Southern Queensland and a Masters of Engineering at University of Wisconsin. Both online graduate programs were very rigorous. In terms of transfering credentials back to the provinces it’s at the discretion of the governing board ( in Ontario it’s PEO ) I haven’t attempted this yet but will apply shortly. You may end up having to work in the States if licensing is not accepted here but I
know many practicing engineers in Ontario that have not pursued their P Eng status. I also know many PEng’s that are now highschool teachers for what that’s worth. I’ve completed an exhaustive search for online programs and UND and the last 2 years at stony brook ( not yet ABET) approve are the only two I’ve found with solid curriculum in the USA. Transfering back to Canada is a major concern. If you live on a border town, investigate over the border ie… Buffalo, Detroit etc. In terms of graduate work there are many schools online. U of Bath, USQ, Michigan Tech, Gonzaga, univ of Arkansas, Syracuse, university of South Florida, Wisconsin, Iowa State, Waterloo. I am specifically focusing on power engineering. It seems that universities taylor more towards graduate programs. incidently, I have found online programs much more difficult than sitting in class for the simple fact that getting answers to questions may take some time in the form of a conference call or email. Also, if you decide to take classes online find out the format first. Some universities offer only written online work. Better courses stream the live classes or record them for future viewing. I have found that many USA schools have adopted this model. Based on my experience, a viewable, streamed class is comparable to actually being in class without the hassle of commuting.

I know this is an old post but here’s hoping that some of the previous posters still visits. I have a question for those taking engineering at UND: how many classes are you able to handle per semester?

I was surprised to see this post was still very active with regards to ABET accredited online degrees. I did not see a link to ABET’s webpage that specifies what degrees they have accredited that are 100% online.

http://www.abet.org/online-programs/

As of right now, Arizona State University is the only school that offers a 100% online engineering undergrad. The degree offered by ASU is a Bachelors of Science in Engineering, Electrical Engineering. I am currently enrolled in the program and have to say I am very impressed with how they approach the online learning environment. I have only been going to ASU for a semester so far, but I have a previous undergrad in IT from American Public University and can say without a doubt that ASU is much more rigorous. Hope that helps.